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Howdy.... Has anyone created one of these machines? Do you happen to have any plans? I'm looking to build one and wondering if anyone out there has done so yet?

Cheers,

Richard

Here's mine and I think Tim Mcknight has built one as well as Mario. Mine uses pulleys and a jack shaft for a speed reduction. I got my wheel down to around 100 RPM which seems to work well. The threaded rods you see sticking up thru the form, holds things steady and allows me to set stops so I can keep things level and don't grind the sides away to nothing or make a slim line guitar if I'm not paying attention. I think there is more info on Tim,s sander in the "Jig's and Techiniques" link above.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Richard, there are several people here on the forum who have built electric rim sanders.

Tim McKnight has one posted in the Jigs, Tools & Techniques section or you can just go right to it Motorized Rim Set Sander.

Hope this helps.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Your faster than me John. Great addition with the threaded rods for height adjustment

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I've got a page up that shows the construction of mine. Look on
   http://dunwellguitar.com/
and go to thr Luthier Links and the Hollowform Sander page.

We have heavy snow just now (Morning of Oct. 26) so the 802.11x wireless link to the server may be spotty .

Alan D.dunwell39016.4462615741

And yet another thread onthe one I built. It works great! I would add bolts like John's, I did!

Rim Sander

Shane

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Canada

One other thing I would recommend is not under powering this thing. I'd use at least a 3/4 hp motor or more. Mine is about a half hp and it will not start under load. I have to lift the form off the sanding dish and then set it back down after it starts. Not a real pain but when I replace the motor I will definately get a stronger one.
I use Tim's quick removal hub and it works great.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Weird John! Mine is 1/2 hp washing machine motor. I selected the slower speed of 1140 rpm. I use this sander to make the dishes I sell so I put a double lamination of 3/4 inch mdf on top and then run a router aginst it on a sled. Mine starts and runs GREAT! I can stop it but I do need to exert pressure to do it. Still, given a choice, more HP is better but it is also nice to know that the thing will stall if anything goes south on ya!

Shane

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Canada

How long does it take to sand down the back rim using a motorized sander at 100 RPM...assuming 1/16"-1/8" of material to remove?

I know you guys make a lot more guitars in a year than me but I really can't justify the space it occupies and the time to make such a dedicated device.

I generally plane off most of the rim close to the line and then spend no more than 10 minutes sanding the back and considerably less time on the top. Having said that, if I made more guitars I can see where this would prevent a lot of elbow and back strain.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

You can also use a right-angle gear reducer. These require C-face motors, but otherwise simplify the drive assemble quite a bit. Mine is a Dodge Tigear 15:1 reducer. With a 3/4 HP 1725 motor I get 115 RPM. Got the unit on eBay for $40. Of course, the shipping also cost $40 (heavy thing!).

Here's a pic:


Good Luck!

Jim

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James Warwick
J. Warwick Guitars, LLC
http://www.jwarwickguitars.com

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] How long does it take to sand down the back rim using a motorized sander at 100 RPM...assuming 1/16"-1/8" of material to remove?

I know you guys make a lot more guitars in a year than me but I really can't justify the space it occupies and the time to make such a dedicated device.
[/QUOTE]

I'm in JJ's camp on this. By the time you scour internet for information, dismantle an appliance for a motor, run around town for parts and then actually put the thing together you could have 10 hours into it. All to save 10 minutes of sanding. It seems like unless you're sanding a lot of instruments or have a physical ailment that hinders you from manually sanding, it not worth the effort to make this sander. There are so many other jigs that are easier/faster/cheaper to make that can save you just as much time.

The reason I built mine is because the last time I did it manually, I couldn't pick my arm up or lift anything for two weeks and a lot of hot&cold packs. OUCH!!!
Perhaps it was just my technique but since I am in Lance's camp and bend the sides before profiling, this helps. Actually I'm starting a production shop and will be building 100 guitars a year John How39016.5716550926

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

So how long does it take with the machine? That was the real purpose of my post...not to start a camp!

Oh, John...and BTW...congratulations on the production shop. That'll sure make a lot of players happy!!!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

All to save 10 minutes of sanding. It seems like unless you're sanding a lot of instruments or have a physical ailment that hinders you from manually sanding, it not worth the effort to make this sander

There are often very different reasons for building tools. I powered my dish(the one that Tim copied and submitted to ASIA as an article....) after blowing the L-5 disc in my back. I was looking at 5-6 rims ready to be sanded, yet I couldn't as much as lift a dish or rim set in its form, much less twist and turn for 5-10 minutes to perform the sanding. So, I gave it some serious thought, and came up with the design, built it, and that was that.

I use Tim's quick removal hub and it works great.

Ahem... You're welcome....

how long does it take

Probably takes about 1-2 minutes to sand an edge... Depends on how well your side template was done.Mario39016.7786458333

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to step on any toes when joining JJ's camp that's why I mentioned physical ailments as a reason for building one of these.

My point was geared more to the "weekend warrior luthier" who builds a couple instruments a year. There just doesn't seem like much of a time/effort savings for those of us who build slowly.

John, put me down for commemorative guitar #1000 .

[QUOTE=Mario] powered my dish(the one that Tim copied and submitted to ASIA as an article....

I use Tim's quick removal hub and it works great.

Ahem... You're welcome....
[/QUOTE]
Mario, you act as if you invented this machine. Which, you SOOOOOO didn't. Your post on the MIMF dates Nov 16, 2003. When I went to ASL in the winter of 2000, Charles Fox had machines EXACTLY like yours. Pictures of it used to be located on Frets.com in the shop tours section. And I'm seriously doubting that he copied it from you. In fact I even had one built before you had posted that thread.
Tim was pretty clear that he gave you credit for "your" design. I ceratainly don't see you doing the same.

Well, if I'm wrong, I is, and I'll apologize. I had never seen anything other than a few converted potter's wheels before I built mine, with the removable dish and the floating drive shaft as what I thought were cool innovations that were worth sharing with the MIMF. Without a word of warning, Tim did jump the gun and hurry up with his submission, and his IS a direct copy(and yes, he gives me some credit). The one differences is that mine is built-in, and his has its own wheeled cabinet.

Since I've never seen Fox's, or yours, care to share so we can see how it's driven and suspended? I honestly was stumped for many days as I was trying to think of how to build mine.

At any rate, I didn't invent anything new, that I'm sure, and never claimed to have. And for that reason, I would not have submitted it to the GAL or ASIA. That was never a point at all. I'd never(and I'm sure most folks here wouldn't, either) submit an article to a trade magazine of something that I'd directly copied from someone who openly shared it over the internet a few weeks/months earlier. That was wrong.

A LOT of us went ahead and built the "Williams" binding jig after he shared his take on the Fleishman jig, but none of us ran out and submitted an article on it. I made one, and changed it enough(improved for how I use it, methinks), but still, I don't see it as mine to submit to the GAL or ASIA.

Anywho, y'all didn't step on my toes, and I -was- just funnin' with the 'you're welcome' part. It's called sarcasm. So, not everyone gets my sense of humour; not a big deal. I be different, I admit.Mario39017.8146643518

It won't really do any good to show any pics of mine as it is nothing that everyone hasn't seen already. I drive mine with pulleys and the shaft goes directly through the disk. I just crank down a nut on the shaft to keep it tight. I'm sure it would slip if I really layed into it but I don't and therefore it doesn't. The only reason I did it this way is that I didn't have a lazy susan or access to any welding equipment to make the "spinny thingy".
I don't really understand your beef with Tim, and it's probably none of my business. But there are articles in those pubs every issue by folks that haven't designed the jig/method/product. I don't recall Tim's off hand but if you were given credit, I don't really see where there is a problem. Those magazines are intended to better this craft we all love. And spinnin' disks help most everyone. Tim took the time to write it up to try to help others better their craft. We shouldn't be in it for the credit we get from thinking of ideas. If that were the case, Tim should have credited Charles for the design. We all steal ideas, knowingly or not, it doesn't really matter. That said, we all share ideas, hopefully because we want to help others rather than get the credit for sharing them. You stated that you would never submit an article to GAL or ASIA about something you didn't design. I think that's a shame. You could simply start the article like, "I didn't design this and I don't know who did, but this is how I do it and thought it might help others". You won't publish in a trade pub but you'll post on a forum (which likely has more readers) and take full credit. I guess I'm wondering what the difference is.

So yours and Fox's is bolted directly to the shaft, so that the shaft bearings are in thrust, also. That is what I was trying so hard to avoid. Where I made mine different, is what allows it to not require heavy bearings, or even a strong platform to be bolted to. Also allows the use of our existing dishes, and instant changes from one to another(I have a top radius, 2 different ones for the back radius(different models, different radii), and a flat "dish". Bolting a dish to a shaft to spin it, I knew about, and that one was obvious. I wanted something that was easier to build with lighter-duty parts and hardware, and was more flexible in its use, and achieved it.

By now, I may have submitted it, because I now have worked with it for 3 years, without any issues or even any maintenance at all. That was another thing that bugged me; Tim submitted it long before we knew if the bearings would last, if the speed was safe, etc... If, after a year, it would have proven to be a bad design, my name would have still been associated with it. Guess I'm just more cautious.

The difference between sharing on the web and in paper is just that. We can quickly revise on the web, even archived posts. For example, if I'd have discovered that the bearings failed at the one year mark and flung the dish at the operator, I'd have Deb pull that thread, and replace it with a warning. Can't go to everyone's home(and bathroom) and take away their ASIA mags... <bg> Publishing on paper carries more weight, and more responsabilities.

[QUOTE=Mario] So yours and Fox's is bolted directly to the shaft, so that the shaft bearings are in thrust, also.

[/QUOTE]
Mine is, Charles used a system just like yours. The two pole drive with a center and a non-centered pole.
I use two pillow block bearings mounted to cross members of the cabinet.